Debate #3: Gay Adoption

This was a pretty good debate, and featured some good speeches from both sides that we can learn from.  Yoonhong and Hyungwoo delivered well time-wise and content wise, and Hyungwoo showed the best example of sign posting.  IF there is one thing every speaker can easily improve, it is this.  List your arguments and then summarize at the end.  Even if your arguments are not that good, they will be that much better if your audience knows what you said and in what order.  In some debates it is the team that is clearest that wins.

Another thing - don't repeat your teammates arguments.  Present NEW examples and add to what they say.  And if you guys summarize more - you will be closer to 5 minutes. 

AND - BIG AND - you guys need to have more fun BEFORE you start your arguments.  "Set the table" with a little story that peaks the audiences interest.  In the case of gay adoption, you can paint a picture of an ideal set of parents who have money, success, and good values - and then reveal that they are gay.  Meanwhile, you can paint a picture of two parents who are not ideal - with no money and no success and alcohol addiction - and then reveal that they are heterosexual parents.  Which home is better?  More of that kind of analogizing and preamble is necessary to make your speeches more interesting. 

For this debate, the Opposition won narrowly because of Hyungwoo.  There wasn't a single POI in this debate despite some pretty ridiculous things said that SHOULD prompt the other team to say WHAT???  Such as Gyushik saying that women also clean more than men.  And that last thing he said. 

Anyways, we will leave debate alone and move on to more creative things.  Hope you enjoyed it and hope you take debate next semester.

THB: Homosexual couples should not be allowed to adopt.
Date: May 7th		GOVERNMENT		OPPOSITION
Introduction	Pts	Yoonhong		Mingyu
Delivery	9.2 /10	Good delivery, but arguments need better signposting.  Unclear what main arguments are and what sub-arguments are.  Be clear and list them in a better conclusion.	9.0 /10	Really good listing and sign posting.  But more confidence and flow needed, and more time needed.  Third argument was too short and you didn't summarize.  First two arguments very good.
Arguments	9.2 /10	General perceptions of homosexuals - no longer viewed as harmful. Celebs etc. are changing the status quo.  Discrimination is "almost gone" (really?).  However, we are against adoption. 1. Not a good environment for education development.  Children won't learn gender roles.  They still exist and are still important.   2. Maternal - breast feeding.  Men can't do this.  Mental growth etc. depends on this.   3. Conflict between children and society combined with inner conflict.  Young kids are effected by prejudice etc.  Kids will suffer emotionally.  Inner conflict - kids will feel different from others.  At a young age, this is not good.  6:06	9.1 /10	Homosexuality has long history. Gay adoption is often secretly conducted.  We should consider their rights.  3 reasons: 1. We should consider their rights.  They have the right to be parents and have a family. It is a natural human desire.  Also, if they become old, they will be lonely.  Without kids, they will have a hard time. 2. No specific evidence that kids suffer from problems.  Foster care 1999 stats show that - children are no worse off than those in straight families.  It is prejudice and bias that we assume kids will have problems.  Problems are not restricted to gays. 3.  Other ways to adopt?  (not sure about this one.) 3:40
Notes	Tot 18.4 /20		Tot 18.1 /20
Rebuttal One	Pts	Jungseong	Pts	Hyungwoo
Delivery	8.9 /10	Started well, but ran out of gas and sign posting.  Blended arguments.  Too short.  Rebuttals better than arguments. Didn't add to what PM stated really. Slow down and elaborate clearly.  Have some fun.	9.3 /10	Excellent.  Good all around. Clear and good arguments.  Nice signposting and time management.
Arguments	9.0 /10	Rebuttal 1 - "protect natural rights" - what about the rights of the children?  Children can inherit conflict and problems from their environment. Children should be considered more than the parents because they have limited choice. Rebuttal 2 - prejudice about problems.  You say no evidence, but how can we say that? Evidence is hard to judge. Rebuttal 3 - This argument doesn't stand because we are not arguing about black market.  We are debating about "adoption." Argument 1 - Education - kids won't know about normal family environment.  A lot of discrimination exists, and kids shouldn't have to deal with this. (????? too fast... coulnd't catch it.) 3:24	9.2 /10	Rebuttal 1 - first reason - not good for nurturing children without gender roles and maternal mom etc. - (WHY NO POI etc. assuming that these two parents are MEN???).  Grandparents etc. will make up for that.  Society enables this education, and we can't limit it to parents.   Breast feeding etc. - not strong enough of a reason to ban adoption.  A good parent is better than no parent.  (GOOD). Rebuttal 2 - Kids can be discriminated - Sure - BUT government can actively change this problem, and it will be solved eventually.  Again, not strong enough - single parents also have problems.  Most kids have something to be ashamed of - so why discriminate?   Rebuttal to rebuttals - Ideal conditions should be considered - and this does not need to focus on sexual orientation.  Kids need homes, and some gays are willing to adopt kids that other people won't - such as teens.  It's a win win and we should thank these gay parents who want to do so.  Will we tell them no?  And keep kids out of homes? 5:05
Notes	Tot 17.9 /20		Tot 18.5 /20
Conclusion	Pts	Gyushik	Pts	Hee Hyeon
Delivery	9.1 /10	Good considering the circumstance of limited time.  But... arguments not so organized or strong.	9.0 /10	Good considering the circumstances, but you need to spend more time within the arguments
Arguments	8.9 /10	Rebuttals - yes kids can learn from grandparents - but parents are the most important.   Breastfeeding - just an example and there are far more reasons gay parents are not ideal.  Cleaning etc. (Really??? No POI?? Come on guys.) Children have negative views of homosexuality.  Children won't want gay parents. That is their right. Gays love boys - ????? Not sure where you are going with this.  Homosexuality is wrong (?).   4:05	8.9 /10	Differences - yes - but true value of human rights needs to be kept. Childrens rights - identity problems - but what about regular families?  They will have that as well.  Everyone needs to figure this out. Gender roles - society teaches this. Breastfeeding - not strong enough reason.  What about handicapped parents?  We can't think they are bad parents, so we can't think this about gays. Discrimination - social problem. Not the problem of gays.  So this can not be considered.   Finally, you said that you can't believe our evidence.  But that's not correct.   So we think it should be allowed. 3:27
Notes	Tot 18.0 /20		Tot 17.9 /20